This is an Alliance for Bhikkhuni interview with Małgorzata Dobrowolska, director of the documentary film, “Bhikkhunī – Buddhism, Sri Lanka, Revolution”.
Why did you choose Sri Lanka as a focal point for the narrative to take place?
The island of Sri Lanka is probably the most important place for the establishing and rebirth of the Bhikkhunī Order in the modern history. The ordination of nuns in Sri Lanka began in the third century BC, by Bhikkhunī Saṅghamitta, the daughter of King Ashoka, the Indian ruler of the Mauryan Empire. This was the first documented establishment of the order of nuns outside of India. Then, from Sri Lanka, the Bhikkhunī lineage was transmitted to China in 429 CE. From there it has spread throughought the East Asia. As for the modern Theravāda countries, there are no straightforward proofs that the line of women’s ordination has ever developed in a country other than Sri Lanka. That is why this island is so special. It is a cradle of women’s monasticism in Buddhist tradition.
In 11th century AD women’s ordination line in Sri Lanka has expired. Since then, it is believed that subsequent nuns can not be ordained in Theravāda tradition.
In 1996, thanks to the Sakyadhita International Association of Buddhist Women, the tradition of nuns’ ordination in Sri Lanka was reestablished. 11 women from Sri Lanka have been ordained in India. The first fully ordained nun in Theravāda tradition, after a thousand year break, was Bhikkhunī Kusuma, the film’s protagonist.
Currently, many women who do not have the opportunity to receive ordination in their countries, usually come to Sri Lanka to receive ordinations and then return to their homelands. Examples of such brave women are the two other protagonists in the film; Bhikkhunī Dhammananda, the first Bhikkhunī from Thailand (ordained in 2003 in Sri Lanka) and Bhikkhuni Gautami, the first Bhikkhunī from Bangladesh (ordained in 2016 in Sri Lanka). We can safetly assume that Sri Lanka has been the most important place of the Bhikkhunī Order’s establishment and rebirth thoroughout Buddhist history, even surpassing India, home of the Buddha and first nuns.
At the end of the film you briefly mention that the lack of ordination for women in the Catholic tradition was one of your motivations for creating this documentary. What do you think allowed ordination for Buddhist women in South Asia to be successful?
First of all, the longlasting establishment of nuns was one of the testimonies of the Buddha, when he spoke on his deathbed: “I shall not come to my final passing away […], until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples — wise, well disciplined, apt and learned, preservers of the Dhamma, living according to the Dhamma, abiding by appropriate conduct and, having learned the Master’s word, are able to expound it, preach it, proclaim it, establish it, reveal it, explain it in detail, and make it clear; until, when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma.” [Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha, translated from the Pali by Sister Vajira & Francis Story]
The nuns have the obligation not only to just merely exist, but also to preach the Dhamma, explain it, practice it and be liberated by it. If a Teacher of a major religion specifies that he wants the women’s order to work, this helps the whole situation and it is our duty to carry out this goal.
Second argument is education. Bhikkhunī Dhammananda and Bhikkhunī Kusuma, the film’s protagonists, are the pioneers of the ordination of women in their respective countries. Before they were Bhikkhunīs, they worked as academics, giving lectures about Buddhism at universities. I think that that kind of in-depth knowledge of the source texts and Buddha’s teachings allowed them to properly renew the Bhikkhunī line. It required from them immense courage and independent thinking, character traits which they have, and which helped a lot in their endeavor.
There are many misunderstandings regarding the ordination of women. There are many stories and views that are not the Buddha’s true teachings, but the misrepresentation of a patriarchal culture. Distinguishing these two things and a proper education is the foundation of success. Providing reliable information and showing the rebirth of the Bhikkhuni order despite the difficulties is also the main goal of the film.
Why do Bhikkhunis have 84 more vows than bhikkhus?
There are several reasons. Sometimes the same monastic rule that monks have, in Bhikkhunī Vinaya is divided into several smaller rules. Mainly the rules differ in accordance to specific women conditions, which in theory were supposed to help nuns, such as additional cloth, different mode of training for women, or protection from rape, etc.
Actually, as U. Dhamminda writes in her translation of two Pātimokkhas: “There are a total of 311 rules in the Bhikkhuni Pātimokkha of which 130 are unique and 181 are shared with the Bhikkhu Pātimokkha.”
Once you read the Pātimokkha for the Bhikkhunīs, you understand the context and the need for different rules. Actually Pātimokkha rules are just the number of rules which are recited during the full-moon days. The real number of rules is in Vinaya, and it exceeds the Pātimokkha. Vinaya rules are different for male and female monastics, because of different precedences that have been happening in Buddha’s times. And as we know, the Vinaya is a precedent rule of law in the Sangha community.
It was interesting to hear about the monk in Sri Lanka organizing a monastery for bhikkhunis. But it was a little unclear if it was a place to train/educate women (for four years, then they leave?) of if they were actually becoming bhikkhunis. Could you clarify?
When it comes to Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center, that you are reffering to, this is a Pirivena (monastic college) for nuns. It was inaugurated on March 8th 2015. This is the first time in the history of Buddhism in Sri Lanka that a Pirivena exclusively for woman has been established. For comparison according to annual report from 2018 about 753 Pirivenas for monks have been founded and maintained by the Ministry of Education. Due to the fact that the Sri Lankan government does not recognize Bhikkhunīs, it also does not support their education. The Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center is supported by donations from a community.
Learning in the Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center lasts 4 years. The nuns deepen their knowledge of the Buddha’s teachings, practice meditation, learn languages such as English and Pāli, as well as temple management. Bhikkhunīs are trained to be qualified Dhamma teachers and Buddhist counselors, who can provide scholarly activities and social service both locally and internationally.
Becoming a full Bhikkhunī is a separate ceremony, like the one documented in the film, when the Bangladeshi nuns got their ordination.
The professor says that there needs to be 10 bhikkhunis and 10 bhikkhus to ordain a bhikkhuni. We understand that there only needs to be 5 bhikkhunis and bhikkhus. Could you explain this discrepancy?
In the beginning, when the Sangha was smaller, the Buddha himself was giving ordination. Later on, He gave permission to the chapter of the elder bhikkhus to ordain candidates. Later, when Buddhism began to spread to other countries, this number was reduced to five monks, due to the fact that there were not enough monks everywhere. But the number of 10 bhikkhus remained valid in the region of Majjhimadesa: ‘Middle Land’; Middle Ganges Valley. Outside of that region, the exemption in the Vinaya — proposed by Ven. Maha Kaccana and approved by the Buddha – concerning the acceptance to the Sangha applies.
So in the film, the professor refers to this Middle Ganges Valley region, where 10 bhikkhus and 10 bhikkhunīs are neccessary, and this is the region where for example Venerable Kusuma was ordained.
It is crucial to remember that in a situation where there is no Bhikkhunī, the Buddha authorized the Bhikkhus to give the higher ordination, without the second part of the ceremony (ordaining by nuns, as there are none). This rule can be found in the Cullavagga (Cv) of the Pāli Vinaya.
Cv X.2: “: “Bhikkhus, I authorize the giving of the higher ordination of bhikkhunīs by bhikkhus,” anujānāmi, bhikkhave, bhikkhūhi bhikkhuniyo upasampādetun ti.
If only the monks could read this principle correctly, we would not have problems with the ordination of women today.
What is the significance of the bubbles and smoke used in the film?
It’s my creation and artistic visualisation. In this graphic way I wanted to reflect the nature of the mind. Transparent water is a mind purified from poisons. Only when the water is clear can we see things as they are. For me, transparent water is a symbol of Awakening.
When the voice-over referes to a Burmese nun, who went to prison for being Bhikkhunī, the water becomes completely black, and there is smoke in it. This is my interpretation of the mind of a person who commits such things. Perhaps the monks who condemned Bhikkhunī Saccavadi in their opinion did the right thing, they wanted to protect the purity of the line, but is it right to hurt others in the name of principles and traditions? What is more important; tradition or someone’s life?
Then the smoke turns into a silhouette, tangled with pink changing to blue stripes. This is part of my painting, it symbolizes that sometimes we incarnate as women, sometimes as men. With this in mind, it’s important to be very careful about gender equality. Perhaps in next life those monks who were against women ordination might be born as a female, without even a chance of becoming a nun, they would reap what they sow.
After spending some time in bhikkhuni communities, what do you think is most needed in terms of material and spiritual support?
In addition to the things mentioned in the film, such as regulating legal issues or access to education, I think that the most important thing is the recognition of Bhikkhunī Sangha by lay people and the awareness of the situation that the Bhikkhunī Order is facing. I believe the most important thing is education about the history of Bhikkhunī, as well as raising awareness of the importance of the fact, that the restoration of women’s ordination has been achieved.
The life of nuns and monks is fully dependent on the support of lay community. One of the monks points out, that if the monks who do not support the cause of Bhikknunī would not eat for a week, as a penalty from lay supporters, they would change their minds immediately. It speaks to me very much. I am not persuading people to do such radical things though. My only point is to raise awareness that as lay people we have a huge influence on the shape of the Sangha.
Małgorzata Dobrowolska is an activist and documentary filmmaker who focuses on stories of women. She travels the world to document situations of women in main religions and other spiritual movements. She deeply believes that the key to reach world peace is to restore balance between the energy of men and women and bring about a change on a spiritual level. https://bhikkhuni-film.com
This is an Alliance for Bhikkhuni interview with Małgorzata Dobrowolska, director of the documentary film, “Bhikkhunī – Buddhism, Sri Lanka, Revolution”.
https://bhikkhuni-film.com
Why did you choose Sri Lanka as a focal point for the narrative to take place?
The island of Sri Lanka is probably the most important place for the establishing and rebirth of the Bhikkhunī Order in the modern history. The ordination of nuns in Sri Lanka began in the third century BC, by Bhikkhunī Saṅghamitta, the daughter of King Ashoka, the Indian ruler of the Mauryan Empire. This was the first documented establishment of the order of nuns outside of India. Then, from Sri Lanka, the Bhikkhunī lineage was transmitted to China in 429 CE. From there it has spread throughought the East Asia. As for the modern Theravāda countries, there are no straightforward proofs that the line of women’s ordination has ever developed in a country other than Sri Lanka. That is why this island is so special. It is a cradle of women’s monasticism in Buddhist tradition.
In 11th century AD women’s ordination line in Sri Lanka has expired. Since then, it is believed that subsequent nuns can not be ordained in Theravāda tradition.
In 1996, thanks to the Sakyadhita International Association of Buddhist Women, the tradition of nuns’ ordination in Sri Lanka was reestablished. 11 women from Sri Lanka have been ordained in India. The first fully ordained nun in Theravāda tradition, after a thousand year break, was Bhikkhunī Kusuma, the film’s protagonist.
Currently, many women who do not have the opportunity to receive ordination in their countries, usually come to Sri Lanka to receive ordinations and then return to their homelands. Examples of such brave women are the two other protagonists in the film; Bhikkhunī Dhammananda, the first Bhikkhunī from Thailand (ordained in 2003 in Sri Lanka) and Bhikkhuni Gautami, the first Bhikkhunī from Bangladesh (ordained in 2016 in Sri Lanka). We can safetly assume that Sri Lanka has been the most important place of the Bhikkhunī Order’s establishment and rebirth thoroughout Buddhist history, even surpassing India, home of the Buddha and first nuns.
At the end of the film you briefly mention that the lack of ordination for women in the Catholic tradition was one of your motivations for creating this documentary. What do you think allowed ordination for Buddhist women in South Asia to be successful?
First of all, the longlasting establishment of nuns was one of the testimonies of the Buddha, when he spoke on his deathbed: “I shall not come to my final passing away […], until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples — wise, well disciplined, apt and learned, preservers of the Dhamma, living according to the Dhamma, abiding by appropriate conduct and, having learned the Master’s word, are able to expound it, preach it, proclaim it, establish it, reveal it, explain it in detail, and make it clear; until, when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma.” [Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha, translated from the Pali by Sister Vajira & Francis Story]
The nuns have the obligation not only to just merely exist, but also to preach the Dhamma, explain it, practice it and be liberated by it. If a Teacher of a major religion specifies that he wants the women’s order to work, this helps the whole situation and it is our duty to carry out this goal.
Second argument is education. Bhikkhunī Dhammananda and Bhikkhunī Kusuma, the film’s protagonists, are the pioneers of the ordination of women in their respective countries. Before they were Bhikkhunīs, they worked as academics, giving lectures about Buddhism at universities. I think that that kind of in-depth knowledge of the source texts and Buddha’s teachings allowed them to properly renew the Bhikkhunī line. It required from them immense courage and independent thinking, character traits which they have, and which helped a lot in their endeavor.
There are many misunderstandings regarding the ordination of women. There are many stories and views that are not the Buddha’s true teachings, but the misrepresentation of a patriarchal culture. Distinguishing these two things and a proper education is the foundation of success. Providing reliable information and showing the rebirth of the Bhikkhuni order despite the difficulties is also the main goal of the film.
Why do Bhikkhunis have 84 more vows than bhikkhus?
There are several reasons. Sometimes the same monastic rule that monks have, in Bhikkhunī Vinaya is divided into several smaller rules. Mainly the rules differ in accordance to specific women conditions, which in theory were supposed to help nuns, such as additional cloth, different mode of training for women, or protection from rape, etc.
Actually, as U. Dhamminda writes in her translation of two Pātimokkhas: “There are a total of 311 rules in the Bhikkhuni Pātimokkha of which 130 are unique and 181 are shared with the Bhikkhu Pātimokkha.”
Once you read the Pātimokkha for the Bhikkhunīs, you understand the context and the need for different rules. Actually Pātimokkha rules are just the number of rules which are recited during the full-moon days. The real number of rules is in Vinaya, and it exceeds the Pātimokkha. Vinaya rules are different for male and female monastics, because of different precedences that have been happening in Buddha’s times. And as we know, the Vinaya is a precedent rule of law in the Sangha community.
It was interesting to hear about the monk in Sri Lanka organizing a monastery for bhikkhunis. But it was a little unclear if it was a place to train/educate women (for four years, then they leave?) of if they were actually becoming bhikkhunis. Could you clarify?
When it comes to Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center, that you are reffering to, this is a Pirivena (monastic college) for nuns. It was inaugurated on March 8th 2015. This is the first time in the history of Buddhism in Sri Lanka that a Pirivena exclusively for woman has been established. For comparison according to annual report from 2018 about 753 Pirivenas for monks have been founded and maintained by the Ministry of Education. Due to the fact that the Sri Lankan government does not recognize Bhikkhunīs, it also does not support their education. The Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center is supported by donations from a community.
Learning in the Dekanduwela Bhikkuni Training Center lasts 4 years. The nuns deepen their knowledge of the Buddha’s teachings, practice meditation, learn languages such as English and Pāli, as well as temple management. Bhikkhunīs are trained to be qualified Dhamma teachers and Buddhist counselors, who can provide scholarly activities and social service both locally and internationally.
Becoming a full Bhikkhunī is a separate ceremony, like the one documented in the film, when the Bangladeshi nuns got their ordination.
The professor says that there needs to be 10 bhikkhunis and 10 bhikkhus to ordain a bhikkhuni. We understand that there only needs to be 5 bhikkhunis and bhikkhus. Could you explain this discrepancy?
In the beginning, when the Sangha was smaller, the Buddha himself was giving ordination. Later on, He gave permission to the chapter of the elder bhikkhus to ordain candidates. Later, when Buddhism began to spread to other countries, this number was reduced to five monks, due to the fact that there were not enough monks everywhere. But the number of 10 bhikkhus remained valid in the region of Majjhimadesa: ‘Middle Land’; Middle Ganges Valley. Outside of that region, the exemption in the Vinaya — proposed by Ven. Maha Kaccana and approved by the Buddha – concerning the acceptance to the Sangha applies.
So in the film, the professor refers to this Middle Ganges Valley region, where 10 bhikkhus and 10 bhikkhunīs are neccessary, and this is the region where for example Venerable Kusuma was ordained.
It is crucial to remember that in a situation where there is no Bhikkhunī, the Buddha authorized the Bhikkhus to give the higher ordination, without the second part of the ceremony (ordaining by nuns, as there are none). This rule can be found in the Cullavagga (Cv) of the Pāli Vinaya.
Cv X.2: “: “Bhikkhus, I authorize the giving of the higher ordination of bhikkhunīs by bhikkhus,” anujānāmi, bhikkhave, bhikkhūhi bhikkhuniyo upasampādetun ti.
If only the monks could read this principle correctly, we would not have problems with the ordination of women today.
What is the significance of the bubbles and smoke used in the film?
It’s my creation and artistic visualisation. In this graphic way I wanted to reflect the nature of the mind. Transparent water is a mind purified from poisons. Only when the water is clear can we see things as they are. For me, transparent water is a symbol of Awakening.
When the voice-over referes to a Burmese nun, who went to prison for being Bhikkhunī, the water becomes completely black, and there is smoke in it. This is my interpretation of the mind of a person who commits such things. Perhaps the monks who condemned Bhikkhunī Saccavadi in their opinion did the right thing, they wanted to protect the purity of the line, but is it right to hurt others in the name of principles and traditions? What is more important; tradition or someone’s life?
Then the smoke turns into a silhouette, tangled with pink changing to blue stripes. This is part of my painting, it symbolizes that sometimes we incarnate as women, sometimes as men. With this in mind, it’s important to be very careful about gender equality. Perhaps in next life those monks who were against women ordination might be born as a female, without even a chance of becoming a nun, they would reap what they sow.
After spending some time in bhikkhuni communities, what do you think is most needed in terms of material and spiritual support?
In addition to the things mentioned in the film, such as regulating legal issues or access to education, I think that the most important thing is the recognition of Bhikkhunī Sangha by lay people and the awareness of the situation that the Bhikkhunī Order is facing. I believe the most important thing is education about the history of Bhikkhunī, as well as raising awareness of the importance of the fact, that the restoration of women’s ordination has been achieved.
The life of nuns and monks is fully dependent on the support of lay community. One of the monks points out, that if the monks who do not support the cause of Bhikknunī would not eat for a week, as a penalty from lay supporters, they would change their minds immediately. It speaks to me very much. I am not persuading people to do such radical things though. My only point is to raise awareness that as lay people we have a huge influence on the shape of the Sangha.
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